drew sagan

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Posts by drew sagan

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  10

  Does the Society actually condemn Thanksgiving in print?

  by reneeisorym in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i've tried to find it in print while i was a jw about thanksgiving and couldn't find it.

  i actually convinced my relatives that the society never said thanksgiving was wrong.

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  drew sagan

  Blondies quotes sum it up.
  
  IMO the Watchtower is much more concerned with rejection of "the world" around them much more so than any kind of pagan roots that could infect them (pinatas article anyone?) By rejecting the practices of the culture in which they live they become separated from friends and family engaged in such customs. This helps build up the 'community' of people loyal to the rejection of the culture since they all together share in their struggle to 'resist the world'.
  
  I think this is why the WTS comes down much harder on actual events of celebration while leaving other more personal things (like wedding rings) alone.
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  39

  The MIstake Witnesses Will Make On March 10, 2008

  by t33ap80c in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the mistake jehovahs witnesses .

  are going to make .

  on sunday, march 10, 2008. .

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  drew sagan

  Yes, it all does rest upon this issue!
  
  Problem is that JWs are trained to simply accept this on the basis that other teachings are the 'more important' ones.
  
  So to the JW things present in the Watchtower like rejection of the Trinity and hellfire, paradise earth, and using the name Jehovah all are used as a way to give this 1918 doctrine a free pass!
  
  When a person actually begins to look at this doctrine for what it is they begin their journey out of the Watchtower. It is the weakest link and also the most important.
  
  Thanks for bringing it up.
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  35

  Important! My mother before Elders re marriage problems with Elder husband

  by Guest with Questions in

  1. social
  2. relationships

  if anyone can help me understand what goes on in the mind of elders?

  is there a buddy mentality to protect each other and the flock and sacrifice those who make waves?

  ive gathered coming here that may be true.. the reason im asking is because my mother has found herself in a very difficult situation and im really worried for her.

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  drew sagan

  This thought may be out on a tangent, but here it goes.
  
  The one thing JWs hate is legal trouble. The Watchtower almost never backs up a local Elder body and will turn them over to the wolves if they feel trouble is in the air.
  
  I'm thinking of the possibility that you could at least threaten them with legal action. Something that basically states that you plan to hold them accountable for any intimidation and obstruction they participate in.
  
  I know that it would be a pretty convoluted case in a court of law, but something official could at least scare the Elders into behaving better than usual. They hate their dirty laundry being brought before any outside source.
  
  If you confront her new husband he probably will put himself in the "untouchable" category. You can't really do anything to him. Your mother is the one that finally needs to speak up. But until she does I would say letting him and those Elders know you are watching them and that you are going to hold them legally responsible if anything happens to her could be enough to cut down their egos.
  
  Just a rambling thought. Could be totally impossible. Just wanted to throw it out there.
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  13

  Those Written/Oral Reviews

  by WTWizard in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i can remember those written reviews.

  you got them in the kingdumb misery inserts (potential to cheat on them).

  of course, when you got to the kingdumb hell that night, you were supposed to write the answers on a separate sheet of paper.

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  drew sagan

  As people have mentioned, the only differance between this "test" and the Watchtower study is that you have to look up the answers you are going to repeat.
  
  It does a great job at making you think you have actually done real study!
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  27

  What's the longest you've spent without going on a computer?

  by JH in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i don't spend a day without turning on my computer.

  sometimes i wonder how long i could go without turning this thing on..... it's true that i have good music downloaded and i enjoy listening to music and i love reading bad news...lol and i also love to have a peek here on jwd and chat now and then.. since the last 5 years, i guess i didn't spend a day without going on a computer.

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  drew sagan

  14 Years (from birth to my first time on a computer) ;)
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  69

  Jehovah's Witnesses are not a cult and here's why I think so

  by B_Deserter in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  when most people think of "cult" they think of the people's temple, the branch davidians, or heaven's gate.

  many also want to put jehovah's witnesses, mormons, and scientologists into this group.

  i don't agree with that because there is one main difference between true cults and high-control groups like jws:.

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  drew sagan

  In my opinion, JW's are the most dangerous government subsidized and legitimized cult.

  Believe it or not, there are groups that function legally that are much worse. I suppose you haven't met the Scientologists yet?
  
  It is not the term that defines the group, it is the actions of the group that defines it. That is why I like "high control group". It defines the core actions of what makes up the group, mainly that it is a group that exercises high control on its members. I personally do not see how this in any way shape or form minimizes the unethical and hurtful policies of the Watchtower organization. To each his own I suppose.
  
  To me its the differance between accusing somebody of murder, or accusing somebody of being a psychopathic bloodthirsty killing machine. Both accusations are similar in what they accuse the person of, but one is filled with loaded emotional language and the other is not.
  
  In the context of this message board I have used the term cult many a time, but I know that the majority of people on this board have a similar understanding as to what defines the term. When taken out of the context of people 'in the know' it gets more tricky. Bring such language into a discussion with a JW and get ready to do battle over the implied meaning of the term itself rather than the practices of the organization.
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  69

  Jehovah's Witnesses are not a cult and here's why I think so

  by B_Deserter in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  when most people think of "cult" they think of the people's temple, the branch davidians, or heaven's gate.

  many also want to put jehovah's witnesses, mormons, and scientologists into this group.

  i don't agree with that because there is one main difference between true cults and high-control groups like jws:.

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  drew sagan

  I use the word Cult, because it specifically conjures up negative images, to do otherwise candy coats the whole mess.

  
  
  So are we to simply to apply negative terms to things we don't like? According to you, yes.
  
  What is at issue rests upon what you personally believe a cult to be, and this is different from person to person. In the vast majority of people it brings up a negative picture, but that is as far as it goes. It does not bring into peoples minds any of the dynamics that makes these groups what they are (i.e. information control, thought stopping, ect). Because of this other factors are usually mistaken by the general public as to what some qualities of cults are. This would include thinking that they all are in a compound (like Jim Jones and David Koresh) with guns and poison. Thus, people attach a wide variety of dynamics to their definition of "cult" that may or may not be good in defining such groups.
  
  So when you are using the term "cult" you are giving out a negative vibe, but possibly not one that actually represents the situation as it is.
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  69

  Jehovah's Witnesses are not a cult and here's why I think so

  by B_Deserter in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  when most people think of "cult" they think of the people's temple, the branch davidians, or heaven's gate.

  many also want to put jehovah's witnesses, mormons, and scientologists into this group.

  i don't agree with that because there is one main difference between true cults and high-control groups like jws:.

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  drew sagan

  sammielee24
  
  I prefer the term "high control group" because it is much more descriptive in what it implies about a certain group. The word 'cult' has so many possible meanings in our culture that getting a proper definition of what a cult even is can be next to impossible.
  
  One should simply not use a term or phrase to describe these groups just because it socially implies something more negative. To do so can lead to nothing more than name calling.
  
  I also think that using phrases such as "high control group" actually puts more pressure on groups like the JWs than using the word cult does.
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  28

  God-guided Evolution

  by serotonin_wraith in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  it's a lot to get through, but if anyone gets through it all and disagrees with my position, i'd love to know why because i'd like to make this more solid.

  i don't think i've covered everything yet.

  also if you just have helpful pointers.

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  drew sagan

  .Either way, The Christian faith is not a religion of the book. Christianity is the religion of the Word of God, not a written and mute word, but an incarnate and living being. The book is about the faith and the revelation, not the faith itself or the revelation itself.

  I would also add (possibly to the shock of the 'reform' minded) that it is also the tradition of passing along the faith and revelation.
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  19

  Was Jesus raised from the grave in a "fleshly" since or as a spirit?

  by babygirl75 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this has come up in conversation with my husband.

  i think the jw's taught that jesus was raised as a spirit.

  if this is so, what happened to his body?

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  drew sagan

  Good points Leolaia. I kept trying to post some comments along the sames lines but kept getting an error message! :(